Episode 258 18 Dec, 2024
Managing Gen Z Employees with Level Up Leaders
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With Julianne Guinasso and Poonam Natha

In this episode, we dive into a topic that’s becoming more relevant than ever: managing Gen Z employees in your group practice.
As a Millennial or Gen X group practice owner, you’ve probably noticed that the values, expectations, and communication styles of Gen Z employees can feel vastly different from your own.
To help us better understand and navigate these differences, I’m joined by Julianne Guinasso and Poonam Natha from Level Up Leaders. We explore how generational perspectives influence workplace culture, leadership strategies, and therapist retention—and how embracing these differences can create a thriving, inclusive practice.
In this episode, we cover:
- What Gen Z values vs. what leaders expect—and how to bridge that gap.
- How to co-create a workplace culture that aligns with your team’s values.
- Balancing transparency and authenticity while maintaining healthy boundaries.
- Lessons leaders can learn from Gen Z to enhance their leadership skills.
- Why flexibility and wellness initiatives are the secret to retaining Gen Z employees.
Understanding and embracing generational differences isn’t just about making your practice run more smoothly—it’s about creating a space where every team member feels valued and supported.
If you’re ready to take your leadership to the next level and learn more about managing Gen Z employees in your group practice, this episode is a must-listen!
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Transcript: Julianne Guinasso and Poonam Natha
Maureen Werrbach 00:00:00 Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Group Practice Exchange podcast. I have two people back on who have been on the podcast before, and I’m super excited to have them back. And it is Juliann Grasso and Poonam Natha from Level Up Leaders. If you don’t know who they are, which if you’ve been listening to my episodes, you should. But they are a business that helps group practice. Leaders cultivate psychological safety and we’re going to be talking about something that we haven’t talked about before. And I’m really excited, which is just the generational differences that we’re seeing between group practice leaders and the newer employees coming into the workforce, and just the incongruence that we’re seeing in it.
Welcome to The Group Practice Exchange Podcast, where we talk about all things related to group practice ownership. I’m your host, Maureen Werrbach. This episode is sponsored by Therapy Notes. Therapy Notes is my favorite EHR, and it’s one that I’ve been using in my own group practice since 2014. They’ve got everything you need to be successful in your group practice, and they’re constantly making updates and have live support. If you want two free months of therapy notes, go to Therapynotes.com/r/thegrouppracticeexchange.com.
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Maureen Werrbach 00:02:35 I’m really excited to have you guys on.
Poonam Natha 00:02:40 Thank you for having us.
Maureen Werrbach 00:02:41 Yeah, so we were having a chat on Instagram, which is what kind of sparked putting this episode together, which was around just what I’m seeing and wanting to get your feedback, if that’s what you were seeing, which is a lot of practice owners, kind of the average age we’re seeing right now is like this millennial Gen X sort of age, which is where we’re all in. And just seeing the new generation coming into the workforce, especially in the professional, which usually is a little bit later, obviously coming into group practices and just the difference in expectation that maybe we had when we were first starting or fledgling therapists in group practices and in the workplace versus like what we’re seeing now. And I kind of wanted to get your guys’s feedback on what you’re seeing as well, because it seems like it’s this just phenomenon that is now being talked about a lot, as we see just this difference in expectation.
Maureen Werrbach 00:03:32 What are you guys seeing? Yeah, I.
Julianne Guinasso 00:03:33 Think the main thing that we see over and over again is kind of like for those who are business owners. So whether I feel like it tends to be millennial or later millennial or Gen X tends to be like who we see, and I think there’s just disillusionment or even shock, kind of in the sense that I feel like we’re all showing up and trying to be leaders who do different than what we experience. In fact, I feel like that’s one of the main reasons a lot of people want to be group practice owners because they’re like, I want to be able to create or provide something separate than what I had and really, like, break some of these cycles or really shift that paradigm. And so I think the part that we’re hearing and seeing the most is that shock, when all of a sudden we have a group of employees of this younger generation kind of speak at us in a way as if we’ve, like, really dropped the ball or we haven’t actually progressed or we aren’t doing anything different, or we are just emulating the same toxic behaviors or patterns in a workplace.
Julianne Guinasso 00:04:28 And I think that pieces can be really difficult to kind of navigate because it is so confusing because we’re like, wait a minute. Like what we’re doing is so different. I’m so intentional with everything I ask of you all. I spend so much thought in what it is that we’re really setting expectations to be, to be met with that so consistently, I think, can be really confusing.
Maureen Werrbach 00:04:50 Yeah, I was going to say that literally is exactly why I started my group practice, which is I’m an introvert, as you guys know, and anyone who has heard me once talk very introverted. I’m autistic. I am an only child, so I didn’t have a ton of experience. I’m an immigrant, so we came from Germany when I was going into grade school, and I have a German mom who is like, just did not want to, you know, I came in being like, we’re American now. We need to act American. We’re like, I’m German. These Americans, you know, very not very easy for me to, like, get connected with other kids my age.
Maureen Werrbach 00:05:23 All that to say, in the workplace, I my dad’s military. And so I was born in Germany, and he’s very, like, Type-A, which means I grew up. There’s a right way or wrong way for everything. And so I worked really hard and had multiple jobs. And because I’m quiet and I’m small and I look young, I didn’t often get like, seen at all. I wasn’t seen at all. And so I always felt like not very valued in the workplace. And like I really liked to excel. And so I’d get my work done very quickly and be like, what can I do? Is there anything else I can do? Like, how can I help two leaders? And they’d be like, no, you’re you’re good. And I’m like, you’re under utilizing me. All that to say, I was like, I want my own practice where I’m going to value that. Right? And yeah, so funny, because even in my own practice, we have these experiences.
Maureen Werrbach 00:06:09 I don’t think it’s a unique experience. But like, I started my business for that exact reason, and I’m seeing it just throughout the years in my practice, but also in the practices I help. It’s almost like you can’t dodge it in a way, right?
Poonam Natha 00:06:21 Yeah. I draw a parallel to parenting. So I’m a mom. And similarly there’s like cycles, intergenerational trauma. So let’s call it for what it is. Right. And going into parenting, it’s like, oh, I’m not going to do the same things that my parents did. I’m going to choose to be a more conscious parent. I’m going to be very intentional. And regardless, I definitely still get the mom. This isn’t good enough sort of energy and vibes. And I think the same is true in leadership, right? We go in and we still get feedback that what we’re doing isn’t necessarily what the Gen Z or like, whatever that future generation is looking for.
Maureen Werrbach 00:06:55 Yeah.
Maureen Werrbach 00:06:56 And so now it’s like, all right, maybe it’s accepting that even if we are doing differently and better in some ways to your parenting point, I always think, like, I know I’m gonna mess parts of my kids up, even though I’m so different from my own parents.
Maureen Werrbach 00:07:13 There’s pieces that, as we learn about psychology and just the way people connect and impacts them long term, we’re continuously learning about it. So even as I speak now and when my kids, if they decide to have kids, the parenting is going to be even better in some ways with the extra experience and knowledge. But there’s also going to be areas that still just haven’t been tapped where mistakes are going to be made. And so I think part of it is just like maybe acknowledging that it’s not like a checkbox thing where you can be like, I’m a better boss, like I did a business that is trauma free, that is never going to make any interpersonal relational mistakes. That is like perfect 100%. Maybe that’s like the first step for leaders is like, don’t expect that. Uhhuh. And you’ll set yourself up for failure.
Julianne Guinasso 00:08:01 Yeah. There’s never like an arrival. It’s always like a practice. And I think anytime that I would get that sense of like, oh, cool. I like cracked the code.
Julianne Guinasso 00:08:09 Which of course, to your point, skill developed. I did get more confident, but I feel like as soon as I started to feel that something would come and humility would quickly find me and it would be like, oh, right. Because there’s always a new person. There’s always like a new team dynamic that forms. There’s always like something else that comes. It’s maybe even just like larger than what’s happening, like within your business. That’s outside of your business, that’s causing like impact within, you know, all the different things that kind of like come up and then we’re like, oh, okay, how do we now have these conversations when we have all these different viewpoints? And we’re seeing like, this younger generation has no issue with being really authentic and vocal about what they think and what they see, and what they kind of believe the way things should be.
Maureen Werrbach 00:08:54 Yeah, I think about how and I don’t know if you guys have a similar experience, but like I started working when I was 15, I got a worker’s permit because I couldn’t even legally work without that worker’s permit unless you’re 16 here in Illinois.
Maureen Werrbach 00:09:07 But I have just been working for a very long time. We’re seeing provisionally licensed therapists in my own group practice who have never had a job zero work experience, which provides just a piece of information that says, like someone like me who maybe has been working not obviously at 15 and mental health, but like I worked at a bagel shop, I worked at hallmark, different places like this, like I gained a lot of experience around during that time. What work expectations looked like versus maybe, you know, what we’re seeing now, which is people having less just work experience and then coming into like professional work as their kind of first space. And then couple that with your point, which I actually think is great, is that newer generations are feeling much some amount of safety to be more vocal about their expectations, which is so great, even if it feels painful on our end, because we definitely did not have that experience. I don’t know the amount of things I did in a workplace that like, I wish I could have been able to vocalize like, no, I don’t want to do that thing.
Maureen Werrbach 00:10:13 And that was not what you would do, like. And so I love that. And it also maybe create some resentment with leaders who didn’t get to have that experience and are like, holy moly. Like, okay, we’re offering so much more aware of like workplace dynamics and wanting to create transparency and all that. And it’s still not enough.
Julianne Guinasso 00:10:35 Yeah. It’s like they’re coming in with having unlearned so many of the things that I myself am trying to unlearn, like how do I be more my authentic self in professional relationships or even like they tend to, I feel like really prioritize their mental wellness. And I think back to when I was starting to be a provider and I’m like, what? I would not encourage this, but I definitely put my mental wellness way below and would actually like self-sacrifice. Again, don’t encourage this in order to feel like I was showing up to like do my job. So it was like the work was always the center at sacrifice of myself. And I feel like the thing that I’ve unlearned, that they just are coming in with is, no, I’m actually going to find a job that doesn’t compromise my mental health.
Julianne Guinasso 00:11:16 I’m going to find a job that fits into my life versus me trying to fit into my work. Yeah. And so I feel like already right there, that’s such a clash in the way that they’re coming in. So it’s like, wow, you’re already coming in with all the things I’ve been trying to unlearn for like over the past decade. Yeah. Fantastic. And though how do we still meet in the middle? And also for you to consider that there’s also things that you are here to learn from me because of my lived experience in our field or lived experiences. Of all the work I was doing prior to your point to being in the field?
Maureen Werrbach 00:11:47 Yeah. I’d like to ask you what your feedback is on this, because I think this is the crux of the struggle is how do you engage in the kind of conversations from a place of trust? When I’m seeing a lot of mistrust in leadership, a starting of mistrust, which makes it hard, I guess, to have those conversations where you’re like, yes, I want to hear feedback that you have on changes.
Maureen Werrbach 00:12:16 And yes, some might be ones we can enable or incorporate and some are unrealistic or like wouldn’t work for the sustainability of the practice. But I get that you might want it. Like how do you put those two pieces together? I guess where expectations could be just not in line with sustainability, right? But also allowing for the start of like a connection with a generation that just has those kind of expectations with not that much work experience to, like give the data that that expectation is realistic.
Poonam Natha 00:12:50 I think that mistrust starts with the fact that there’s like assumptions being made, right. There’s assumptions on both parts. And so this is where we have to really center into curiosity and be open to learning from each other. Right. Get the feedback from each other. And then I think for this generation, for Gen Z, who wants transparency, wants authenticity. It’s maybe what’s different. Like as a millennial or elder millennial, if you will. Something that I learned is, oh, we don’t share all the things, right? Or as an employee, I don’t get to know all the things that are happening in the hierarchy or above me.
Poonam Natha 00:13:22 But maybe with this generation it’s, oh, maybe I can actually share some of those things. So there’s like authenticity and transparency happening in these conversations. And now we’re combating those assumptions, and we’re now inviting people into a conversation or helping them see something that they’re making assumptions about that they wouldn’t have seen otherwise.
Maureen Werrbach 00:13:40 And the big piece is that around transparency is like I think that’s a core piece of where mistrust is happening. And how do we balance transparency with like well this isn’t a nonprofit and you’re also not an owner. You know there’s transparency. And then there’s also like just because you don’t know every single backend thing doesn’t mean we’re withholding or right, not being transparent. And so like I’m seeing this also as a delicate sort of space to balance.
Julianne Guinasso 00:14:14 Yeah. It’s almost like you need to talk about like what does trust look like in our relationship? And what does it mean when I extend trust to you. And that’s a choice point where me as like your supervisor or boss is extending trust to you.
Julianne Guinasso 00:14:26 And what does this look like when you extend trust for me? How do we acknowledge like that? There feels like there’s risk in that. But what does that feel like? Or even in the concept of like generosity, like actually asking them, like, what would it feel like for you if you felt like I was extending generosity to you? And then when would that feel like if you’re actually extending it back? And I think us owning in our lived experience or in what we can teach them, is that it is very much a co-creation, right? Like I feel like they tend to lean more into like the blame of the leader rather than saying, okay, sure. If I look at these larger systems in our world, they’re a mess. I get why I don’t trust authority, and how do I own my part in this relational dynamic or in this work culture? So we know that we’re really co-creating together versus it just being my supervisor, my boss or the owner, and always just being in that like more blame space and kind of calling them out in the we’re co-creating this culture and community together.
Julianne Guinasso 00:15:21 So how do we both extend these things and how do we name when we’re not? How do we name if generosity is not in the room, how do we name if trust is not in the room? And how can we kind of like have a conversation around it and then go back to the actual tangible subject that we’re talking about, right? So if it’s like a disagreement, I feel like, you know, finances is always like so common, right? They see something on social media about a huge corporation or maybe a different state, private practice or nonprofit. And then they come in and they think like, oh, I’m being gypped, or I’m not getting all these things. And so it’s like, whoa, okay. So first let’s like have a moment where, like we’re having a meta conversation around the fact that currently there isn’t generosity in the room and that we aren’t leaning into the trust we’ve built. And then let’s acknowledge that piece first, and then let’s go into the more logistical. Here’s what I would be willing to share.
Julianne Guinasso 00:16:13 Here’s where I do want to be transparent. But to your point, not in a way where I’m having to like, justify always or feel like I have to justify in the position as like owner.
Maureen Werrbach 00:16:22 Yeah. You said something in this piece here about like the corporations. And I feel like a lot of the lack of trust comes from just like the larger systems, the Googles, the. Yeah. And so often there’s so much more power in those entities than there is in a small business, like a group practice and even a practice that has, you know, 5100 employees, is large but is still considered a small business. Right? Not in comparable to, you know, the Googles of the world or the Amazons of the world who are profiting at the expense of people. Yeah. And I think that’s sometimes hard to, like, separate.
Julianne Guinasso 00:16:59 Yeah. It’s almost like we have to bring those conversations in and actually like, talk about them and like, see what their concept is of like, what does it mean to be a small business? What does it mean to have you be a part of this and creating this and be able to influence in the way you do? But then also, what does it feel like when you have a great idea? And logistically we’re explaining how it’s not possible and like let’s acknowledge like the disappointment piece of that as well.
Julianne Guinasso 00:17:23 But by no means is that not mean you’re part of the community or that you’re not part of this process. It just means that, like we do have to function different, you know, as a small business for sustainability and just practicality?
Maureen Werrbach 00:17:35 So what things? I want to ask my final two questions. Part or part A and B a being. What is it for those that are listening which are going to be group practice owners. So you know, our generation and older, what can we learn from the newer generation that’s coming in so that we can be curious versus maybe resentful?
Poonam Natha 00:17:57 Yeah, I think we can learn a little bit about flexibility at times, about when mental wellness and our health is a priority. How can we be flexible in perhaps our work schedule? So a tangible example is maybe people work like a 9 to 5 schedule, but where is there flexibility to honor mental wellness or life circumstances? Right. I have to go pick up my kids from school. Maybe I don’t work a 9 to 5, maybe I work at 9 to 2 and then have the opportunity, of course, like assuming employment laws and all those things allow for it.
Poonam Natha 00:18:27 But I have that flexibility to split my day and that allows for more balance, you know, so there’s something to be learned from. How do we make life also fit into our work? I think that’s like one thing that we can learn from them.
Julianne Guinasso 00:18:38 Yeah. And I would say to complement that, like knowing that mental wellness is such a priority for them, it does make me wonder, like where in our field are we still not really looking at how we don’t maybe carve out that kind of time or conversation? If I even think about from the clinical lens, like clinical supervision, I’ve definitely seen a trend where we center provider well-being a little bit more, but ultimately we’re still centering the client, which we should. Right? That’s the purpose. That’s the function of that is to prioritize our clients and their well-being. But what does it actually look like when we name? Yeah, it’s really hard to do clients back to back. What are the ways that you’re actually taking care of like your energy, you know, what’s the hygiene around your note taking so it doesn’t deplete you? What are the like different ways.
Julianne Guinasso 00:19:21 Like we’re all different. We all have different ways in which we have to self support or lean into some of these skills. And so I guess to zoom out as a field Like where are we still missing the provider wellness or provider well-being piece? I even think in other industries they’ve actually almost gone ahead of us in this way. I don’t think we necessarily have to carve out like big, grand programs for employee wellness, but I do think we might need to be a little more intentional about how do we structure within our week actual conversations around this. So it’s like habitual and part of our process because we all know, like, oh yeah, if we’re wellness and our provider, wellness is really there and they feel like that’s prioritized, it obviously goes into the work and everything else too.
Maureen Werrbach 00:20:02 It makes me think of something that we’ve even experienced in my practice with provisionally licensed folks. Again, more often than not, having zero work experience or very minimal is that expectations of full time work and what that looks like, we’re seeing it just, you know, in our practice as well for those provisionally licensed folks that like 25 hours, which to me is has historically been super part time is actually looking like it’s also too much for newer therapists in the field.
Maureen Werrbach 00:20:34 And we’re having conversations, even in my own practice, about shifting our own expectations and like, not to the point of like, not taking our own thought patterns of what we had and being like, well, we were able to see 25 like, I worked in a place that required us to do 40 plus clients sessions. And I, of course, would never, ever even allow something like that. But right. I see myself sometimes and even, you know, leaders that I talk to being like, I mean, it’s part time work and not wanting to like adjust because they’re like, they just need to learn how to be able to function in the workplace at 25 hours. We’re not, you know, if they want benefits or X, Y, and Z, when in reality, my own thinking has started to shift of like capacities just might be different. And can that be okay? Like, do we have to like, walk both ways uphills like our parents did? Do we need to create that same well, because we were able to do it, you should be able to do it.
Maureen Werrbach 00:21:26 And of course, there’s so much I feel like dialogue that can happen around just even that thought process and just where we’re at in the world and the capacities that people have now that maybe are just different than the capacities.
Maureen Werrbach 00:21:42 We had when we were 25, 26 and getting our license.
Julianne Guinasso 00:21:46 Yeah, yeah. What’s able to be shifted and moved and yeah, what do we really need to like look at and adjust and see what’s actually possible and which parts are skill building. And maybe sometimes it’s like to your point being like, oh yeah, maybe now capacity and sustainability look different. And so then if we land on a number that we actually think could be allowed for the business, what are these other conversations around how you sustain your energy as a therapist throughout the week, and what are the little things that you do to, like, set you up to sustain all the things that go into holding so much as our society continues to, like, grapple with what’s happening. and it’s like, already we’re coming in.
Julianne Guinasso 00:22:26 Not as well, perhaps that we’re now really like, I feel like bearing witness to what’s really happening everywhere, even within our communities.
Maureen Werrbach 00:22:34 Yeah, exactly. Okay. So part B and my last part of my question is how can we close that gap or how can we start to close the gap from where leaders and leader expectations are and employee and where their expectations might be on themselves or and on the business? How do we close that? A little.
Poonam Natha 00:22:59 A little, I think, you know, going back to what I said earlier, I think we go back to curiosity. I think we seek to understand perspectives, and I think that we invite. So I think as a millennial, I invite Gen Z into the conversation and actually empower them to also come up with ideas and solutions. Perhaps if they see a gap, what are their ideas? Because I might be limited in my thinking and I might need to name that. So really getting curious and being open is one way we can really work on closing the gap.
Julianne Guinasso 00:23:28 I love how you talk about like the shared values.
Maureen Werrbach 00:23:32 Yes, say a little bit more about that part because I feel like, you know, practices typically have values, and I feel like this could be a whole nother conversation of setting up values. And it actually values me nothing. If the employees you hire aren’t aligned with those values, right, then you have a value like just words, then a website. Yeah. How can we connect that I guess.
Poonam Natha 00:23:54 Are it’s talking about those values. So you know there’s inward facing values. Right. These are the values that I hold for me. And I have to be aware of how these show up in my actions and my behaviors day to day. There’s the businesses values. And what did those look like practiced in action. And then a conversation with our employees about where there is an alignment of values, but maybe also where there’s a misalignment of values. And what values can we agree on are important in our work together. So what is this? You know, Julianne, to your point earlier, what is this co-creation and collaboration look like? And when where do we meet in the middle there? Because values are allowed to be different, right? We’re allowed to stack our values differently or prioritize things differently.
Poonam Natha 00:24:32 But where can we meet in the middle and what is shared amongst us? What can we agree on? That is common purpose, common goal here, and how can we meet our hopes and expectations from that.
Julianne Guinasso 00:24:41 Lens, especially from the relational lens? Right. I feel like even though they’re going to come in with like their own generational values, I feel like everyone’s going to agree that, like, yeah, I want to work in a place where I am extended curiosity or generosity or whatever. Those like key things that kind of come up as your group. And I feel like everyone can agree to that and be like, oh yeah, I can align to that, or I can do my best to champion to that and have more conversation around it. And I think once those are really like clearly identified, it gets easier to be like, oh yeah, we have these shared languages. So even if our personal values are a little different, or generational values are a little different, at least we can lean into this is how we agree to show up in space together in these ways.
Julianne Guinasso 00:25:23 And it also gives them a framework to be like, ooh, what happens when we’re not in alignment to that? And how do we start to speak on that part as well?
Maureen Werrbach 00:25:30 I love that, okay. Thank you for all of this. And of course, we could probably talk on this for hours longer, but for those who want to learn more about you guys, where can they go? And if you have anything new or fresh going on that you want to share, feel free to do that.
Julianne Guinasso 00:25:45 Yeah, yeah, you can find us at levelupleaders.org and Instagram is at Level Up leaders and we all have different things happening throughout the year. So go ahead to our website and you’ll kind of see what’s currently going on. And we’d love to have conversations with you all.
Maureen Werrbach 00:26:02 Awesome. Thank you so much again for coming on.
Julianne Guinasso 00:26:04 Thank you so much for having us.
Maureen Werrbach 00:26:07 Thanks for listening. Give us five stars on whatever podcast streaming service you use and I’ll see you next week.
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Resources
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Therapy Notes
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