Episode 148 | Mindset Shifts Around Busyness with Rebecca Burton

Maureen Werrbach

Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of the group practice exchange podcast. I’ve got Rebecca Burton with me today. She’s a group practice owner who I’ve been following on Facebook for quite some time and I’m excited to be able to talk to her today. She owns Beehive Counseling. Which is, counseling and wellness. And we’re gonna be talking about mindset shifts. She’s owned a group practice now for how long?

Rebecca Burton

Since June of 2019.

Maureen Werrbach

Oh, you’re almost two years in?

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, yeah, that’s so true. Wow.

Maureen Werrbach

I know, it feels like most of it has been through COVID.

Rebecca Burton

So much of it has been through COVID.

Maureen Werrbach

We’re gonna be talking about that. So hi.

Rebecca Burton

Hello!

Maureen Werrbach

How are you?

Rebecca Burton

I am good. I am really busy. But good.

Maureen Werrbach

I know. I feel like that’s the story of all of our lives. It’s just balancing, you know, 30 balls in the air.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah. At least! Maybe dropping one every once in a while. That’s, that’s the challenge.

Maureen Werrbach

Yeah. Well, maybe we’ll give each other permission to drop a few balls this week. And let them just smash. All right. So for listeners who don’t know you, or haven’t been, you know, following you on Facebook, talk a little bit about your practice and where it’s at in these past two years. Because you’ve grown like a whole lot in these–actually, I should say under two years! Not even two years yet.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, no, I definitely have grown. But I get by the way, I should say this from the get go. I give so much credit to The Group Practice Exchange, and the paid membership exchange and all the people that have really been there to answer questions and challenge me and all of that, including you, Maureen. So thank you for that idea. Yeah, my practice would not be what it is today without The Group Practice Exchange.

So I started actually, so what I was in solo practice for probably, gosh, I think 15 years maybe. And I had just gotten really burned out and solo practice. Didn’t want to see as many clients or any clients really to be honest. And I took an early retirement two years ago, and that lasted about two months. Yeah, I was gonna find something else to do all together, you know, or do nothing for a little while or whatever. And that did not last, obviously. But I gave myself just a little bit of space, I decided that what I’d really like to do is is to manage a group practice and hire really good people right? To serve the needs of the community and to not be that person myself.

Maureen Werrbach

And then the burnout just went totally away, didn’t it? In some ways.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah. Because you’re in like this creative mode, right? And lots and lots of problem solving. So that book, I always forget the name of it, but he talks about like, you’re always going to have problems. The challenge is to have good problems. Yeah, I don’t know who did who said that quote, it’s a book with the F word in its name. I don’t remember what it is now.

Maureen Werrbach

Is it Gary John Bishop, Unfu*k yourself?

Rebecca Burton

Maybe? Yeah, that sounds about right.

Maureen Werrbach

I have I have this podcast as explicit. So we’re allowed to swear.

Rebecca Burton

Oh, good. Okay, that’s awesome to know. So yeah, I think it was him. He said that, you only want good problems, you know, ideally, right? So, opening a good practice presents you with like 500 million good problems and, you know, definitely some bad problems too along the way. But so the burnout did kind of go away, you know, because I was in this creative mode. So for the first couple months, I was just on getting my systems together and really like leaning on the group practice exchange for that, and using the documents that are provided, and all of that to really get things set up before I started hiring.

And I think that that was a really good idea. I have done a lot of like growing and changing and tweaking and stuff ever since. But I had good systems going in. And then I hired somebody in August. So that was a couple months after that. Starting out 2020 I had I think we had three clinicians on staff plus myself, and then the pandemic hits. Oh, before the pandemic hit, I signed a new lease January 1st on a nice, big new suite.

Maureen Werrbach

Yeah me too!

Rebecca Burton

Oh, really? On January 1^st?

Maureen Werrbach

On January 1. Yep. So crazy. This place, right? I’m in here now. 19 offices!

Rebecca Burton

Oh, my gosh, okay, well, mine was five. So.

Maureen Werrbach

Still! It’s huge. Five offices is huge. When you’re starting off.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah. So, you know, my thought was, I need to hire people. And you know, that’s always a challenge and whatever. Then the pandemic hit, when we had literally been in the office, nine weeks or something like that, you know? Just barely even getting to know the people that I just hired. So the whole rest of the story takes place within the pandemic. I actually just under an email that I had sent out to my folks, about this time last year, just saying, we’re gonna make it, we’re gonna get through it, here’s all the things that I’m doing, and here’s what to expect. And it was just looking back, I’m like, oh, it really sounded like I knew what I was talking about.

Maureen Werrbach

Did you say I’ll see you in two weeks? You know, I was like, there’s no way we’re gonna go through this summer, we’ll see you in a couple of weeks.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah exactly. “That’s gonna pass.” So, I had just a real small group going into pandemic, and we were able to pivot and do all the things that you know, all of us had to do to survive. And, of course, I ended up surprisingly, to me, I mean. It was sort of a brand new business, I was thinking it would likely fail, you know, in the face of this pandemic. And then what I didn’t anticipate was just the need, you know, out there, right? And so over the course of the next few months, I hired more people, and then had this other location and opportunity. And where we’ve landed up now is, we have 12 clinicians, or 11 clinicians, I’m sorry, and an admin, three quarter time admin, three locations, and we’re looking to hire two more really great candidates in here in the next couple of weeks.

Maureen Werrbach

So amazing growth, during COVID. And that’s, you know, one of the things that I feel like, has been an opportunity through all this, you know, trying to find some positives through all of this is really, for me, as a business owner, it sounds like also for you is just seeing the need. And it almost feels like the stigma that has always been present in the world around mental health and support is, maybe not by choice, but it’s starting to, like wash away a little, because there’s such a need, because people are realizing that that stigma is not supporting, you know, their overall health. You know, having that stigma is not supporting that.

And we’re seeing also just a ton of need in the community. I feel like it’s such a good thing in a way because that need wasn’t not there before. You know, I think to some degree, it’s definitely, you know, people’s stresses and depression and all that might have, might have heightened throughout all of this. But I don’t think there’s that much of a change in just overall need. Maybe the symptoms are increased, but it’s just, I feel like, what this is doing is just highlighting how not big of a deal it is to just seek mental health treatment.

So for us, I feel like it’s this little bit of a silver lining, because people are just, you know, either begrudgingly or not seeking out therapy now because they’re just at a place where they can’t function without having a therapist. And it’s allowed us to be able to support the community more. And I’m clearly seeing that with you because you’ve made huge growth throughout this process.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, this is true. And we’re also seeing I think, coming from authorities or you know, people in positions of power saying get help, you know? That there’s nothing wrong with needing help. And so that’s been both good and bad.

So our governor not so long ago, came out and said, don’t wait, you know, get help now, right. And I don’t know how it is in Chicago, but in Connecticut, the demand is so outweighing the supply right now. So when you tell your citizens of your state to get help, and there is really no help to be had, that’s really problematic, right? And we are also an insurance based practice and the insurance companies, some more than others have not been terribly cooperative through this. Right?

So one of the things that’s come out of that is that a group of friends and I started the Mental Health Clinicians Action Network of Connecticut.

Maureen Werrbach

I saw that!

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, so it’s a grassroots organization, and we are really focused on, on creating and kind of holding legislators feet to the fire, insurance companies feet to the fire to, to remove the obstacles to mental health for for clinicians and clients to be able to work better together, to provide the care that so desperately needed. And we are out there rabble rousing, you know, to make this stuff happen.

Maureen Werrbach

That’s amazing. There’s such a need for that. And, you know, when I see other practice owners talking about their concerns or issues that are coming up with, between themselves and insurance companies, whether it’s around parity, or just getting telehealth sessions covered, or, you know, all of that. I think the best thing that practice owners can do is start something like this or participate in their city or states. You know, we have similar to what you have things going on in the Chicago area where practice owners are connecting together to advocate and talk to legislation and the governor and all that stuff. And I think that’s what’s really going to make that change happen.

Rebecca Burton 

Yeah, I agree that I think that’s been an unintended positive outcome.

Maureen Werrbach

Yeah. So to mindset issues and mindset changes. What have you noticed in yourself in this past year and a half, or maybe even since COVID? Since I know you said you had only one person before then right before January?

Rebecca Burton

I had two.

Maureen Werrbach

Two, okay. What have you noticed in your self, when it comes to just mindset as a business owner? Have there been any shifts? Or are you kind of now coming up against shifts that need to be made? Where are you at with that, because I feel like we all are in different journeys, when it comes to that. My specific mindset shifts that needed to be made, took several years into group practice ownership to really go in the right direction. And so I’m always intrigued to see if people are on the right track right from the beginning, or if they start to notice it. Because I feel like you’re kind of in that space now, where I feel like I would have been recognizing what I need to shift versus already being there.

Rebecca Burton

Mm hmm. Yeah, no, I think it’s a great question. So I think some things haven’t changed, right? My need for systems and guidance. You know, asking for help, was never a big deal for me. I figured people have already gone through and figured it out. So if I can benefit from that, that’s great. Where I’m seeing though, with a real mindset shift needing to happen, it’s not happening yet is this whole concept of dizziness and urgency. And I’ve been doing a lot of studying with, I’m part of an anti-racism intensive, that’s finishing up now. But it’s been like this eight month long, almost like grad school kind of all over again, you know? And we are talking about just that dizziness of urgency being such a byproduct of capitalism and white supremacy, right?

So it’s something that has become really–something I’m seeing both in myself, my expectations of other people, and also in my clinicians, you know, in my staff. And so how to address that and how to change it, I think is complicated. It’s going to require, you know, a lot more thinking and collaborating with both my staff and other folks. But it’s a really worthwhile goal for me, because the downside of feeling like urgency and dizziness all the time is that you’re not present.

You know, I can’t tell you how many times I just forget things because I’m just not really there. I’m always on to the next, you know, project. And so I every once in a while on the Facebook group, I’ll post you know, how many hours a week are you working, you know, and I’ll hear from people oh, eight, you know, eight hours a week and then the rest of the time I play with my dog or whatever. And I’m like, okay, I work like 12 hours a day there. Something needs to change here, you know, and that’s the next thing I’m going to be working on.

Maureen Werrbach

Now, in those 12 hours are you feeling–because you talk about systems and being good with that. Is it issue around delegation or do you feel like you delegate and then you find more things in the name of buisiness to add to your plate? Or is it like a you know what Mike Michalowicz says is like the difference between being a decider and a delegator? You know, a decider is someone who­–do you know that concept? Yeah, okay. What would you say?

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, I mean, that’s a great question. Right. So I think it’s probably all of the above, you know? So another mindset shift that I’ve had is around delegation and hiring people. I have two clinical directors actually one in each of my major locations, and still working on like, turning stuff over to them and not being involved with that really, like, granular micro level, you know. And then for now, anyway, my, my admin, who I always have to say this, because I think it’s funny, he’s my adult son, and he’s amazing.

Maureen Werrbach

I love that. I just did a podcast episode and a couple hours ago with Nikki Ramirez, she’s my HR consultant. She does the Q&A’s too. And the podcast episode was on, is it a good idea to hire friends and family? And her answer is, yes, it’s a good idea. Obviously, there’s lots of stuff in there. But you know, I have my mom working for me too. So I love that.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, it’s been it’s been really great. And he’s fantastic at what he does, you know. But I supervise him basically. And, you know, so we’re, we’re talking all day long. And I’m really involved like on that very micro level when it comes to the billing stuff in that I do my own payroll. And I do. I am the intake coordinator for the practice too. So there are some real needs there to be able to delegate some of that for my own sanity, and I’m just not quite ready to make that that happened just yet.

Maureen Werrbach

So not ready, in what way?

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, it’s definitely control. Right? So I as the intake coordinator, I’m the first person that they interact with clients when they call and that’s important to me. And then also just financially, I mean, I’m taking on the the new practice or the new locations, hiring a bunch of people. You know, it’s cash flow is the struggle is real there.

Maureen Werrbach

So one of the things that I noticed myself in this whole busyness arena and my anti-racism coach is, Nathalie Edmond, and she had talked with me about–

Rebecca Burton

I just has her present to staff meeting, yeah!

Maureen Werrbach

Yeah, so her and I have talked about the idea of busyness, and capitalism and white supremacy. And I noticed that it’s also like ego, in some ways. I always feel like I don’t like to connect myself with having, like a big ego or anything. But while we were talking about this, a few months ago, I realized that there are times, usually when I really let go in the past, and I’m pretty good now. So this is less of a problem with my group practice more of a problem with a group practice exchange, because it’s more just me.

But this idea–and I think a lot of other group practice owners have this issue as well as when we let go and don’t have a lot to do, whatever that means time-wise–there’s this fear that your staff will feel like what are you here for? and that you need to like “earn” I’m doing air quotes for those listening. But like, earn your income. And obviously, that’s a really flawed way of thinking. I know that was something that kind of ran my thought process around productivity, and why I would kind of run around doing lots of things just more to–it was a subconscious thing to feel productive, so that no one could ever say, I didn’t earn, you know, whatever income I was bringing in. And so that took a while to let go of.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, for sure. And I can definitely see that being an issue with me. And in addition to that, I have kept my income really low, because we don’t necessarily need the practice income to live on right. So you know, I’ve kind of got that double thing, right, I want to appear super–and be, not just appear but be super productive, right to earn that. And then also keeping an artificially low so that, you know, I’m not taking too much for my practice, or I’m not, you know, whatever. So it’s a lot of money mindset stuff has definitely come up.

Maureen Werrbach

I feel like that’s the bottom line of most mindset issues around business ownership. It comes down to money mindset. I mean, even when thinking about one of the big mindset issues I had, and still on a certain level struggle with myself is around staff satisfaction. But at the end of the day, my assumption always typically goes to money and that staff wants to make more even though they no one ever says anything. I pay really well, I offer lots of benefits, I know you know a lot of what I offer my practice. But I put this weight on money across the board to everyone else. So whenever I’m feeling like I need to do more it tends to come from a place of something around finances. And the way to make that work is to take it away from you as a business owner. Take it away from myself as a business owner to make it work.

And so I feel like that’s been a struggle as I get larger; to be okay–I’ve talked about this maybe a year or so ago, on one thing that really helped with me on the money mindset and compensation kind of issue was looking at compensation benefits the whole package from an outside perspective. Not looking at it from I’m the business owner and this is a specific employee of mine that is making this income, but just like numbers on a piece of paper. Like the one time depersonalizing things actually was kind of helpful and looking at it and asking like in terms of my geographic area in terms of you know what other businesses similar to mine are doing and not looking at it just from a financial perspective. Because there’s a lot of benefits that one group practice might have over another that doesn’t have anything to do with money.

That might be like the work culture the support and putting that all together looking at it and saying do I feel confident about this compensation structure? Not tying it to a person who might want to make more money, where that mindset might shift, but just numbers on a paper and words on a paper: do I feel confident in it? And I remember looking at it being like this is really good and that has helped me with my own mindset around money and staff satisfaction moving forward. There might be people in the future who need to make more and that is a very different thing than me not paying enough right? Someone might have a lifestyle or or income needs that are just that’s a need for them that is beyond what maybe part time or you know we do 25 hours are considered full time. But I don’t like people working more than that even though they could make more just for balance. Yeah and the ability to be able to say not take it personally and be able to say if you know you need more it doesn’t mean I’m not paying enough

Rebecca Burton

I like that yeah. Yeah that’s really important I think for me to do too because I suspect I’m sort of in the same boat. You know that what I do offer is really good yeah. And also that satisfaction you know I just want to share something with you that I just absolutely love so Carissa Phipps, you know her she’s in a Good Practice Exchange. She’s also like in the middle of this growth right, so she and I have been in it from the beginning. We talk you know a lot about like our success and stuff and so I actually printed out this–these are her words in just a chat that we were having you know–but it was so profound that I actually typed it out made it like a big font.

Maureen Werrbach

You know I love it, you got to read it out loud

Rebecca Burton

I am okay so she says we have to shift our belief that success or normal equals everyone is happy and everything is smooth and stable. We are not failing when fires have to be put out or we are feeling growing pains. Success is us rolling with all this in alignment with our values while taking care of ourselves.

Maureen Werrbach

I love that. Carissa! If you’re listening good job, I love it

Rebecca Burton

Yeah so it really has been not just as everybody happy with what they’re making financially or am I okay with it or whatever. It’s just not even expecting everybody to be happy. Yes it’s fine you know?

Maureen Werrbach

Yeah and that’s I think the bottom line. You have to be working within your values and knowing that that might not be within their own values right? And that’s where you know this whole trickle down effect of how are you interviewing and ensuring that you bring in the right people onto your team so that they’re in alignment with those values. But I think that’s such a great point to make, that it’s not just about what you’re paying it’s not just about you know what hoops you’ll jump through to make everyone happy. But also that those things–and some of the things that you might not be doing–that those things are all in alignment with the business as a whole.

Because at the end of the day you know just kind of a simple fact is you can bend over backwards to the point of burnout and financial instability to make people happy. But that doesn’t bring health to the business and doesn’t create long term happiness for your staff when you have to let them all to go because the business can’t sustain anymore. And so yes, sometimes, what is the right thing to do? And the most like, again air quotes, “healthy” thing for the business might be something that some of your staff align with, and some of your staff might not love. And she’s very right, like difficult conversations are sometimes the catalyst to such beautiful growth.

Rebecca Burton

This is another thing, you know, that we’re studying. and I’m sure Dr. Edmond probably talks talks to you about this as well. That to avoid conflicts at all costs is another, you know, kind of tenant right of white supremacy culture, right? So you know, and that’s another kind of mindset shift that I’m starting to get into. Because I would go to any lengths to make my folks happy. You know, at what cost? So I feel like really working within your values is almost like creating a container and saying, this is a safe container. This is what I can do when I can’t do what I expect and what you expect, and you know, all this right? But to continually kind of be chasing after like, what’s the next thing that’s going to make everyone happy? Is the opposite of that feeling of safety I think.

Maureen Werrbach

Yeah. And I think that, really the first step for people like you and I, who might have these types of mindset issues is the awareness of it. That’s similar to like this whole container idea. Once you realize what this specific mindset issue of dizziness and needing to be productive at all costs all the time, that they’re coming from white supremacy, capitalism, if that’s something you know, and as I noticed for you as it is, for me something that’s really important for me to deconstruct and tear down. At least within myself, and then within my organization that becomes easier to acknowledge when you’re acting in alignment with white supremacy. Just because you have kind of grown up this way. It becomes easier to acknowledge and see that.

I don’t know how often out since starting to work with Natalie, sometime at the beginning of last year, how many things I do are really in alignment with capitalism, and I feel so not mentally–I don’t feel aligned with it. But in me, there’s so many things that I catch that I’m like to my husband, this is white supremacy and capitalism like at its finest. And he’s like, wow, all the all the things we don’t even realize, oh, that was that.

But I think it makes it easier to then deconstruct that. Because there’s a line, there’s like a through line of where this is coming from, I think has made it easier for me to tear it down. When you we don’t know like, when thinking about business as a whole, it’s harder to tear it down when we’re just like, I feel busy. And I don’t like it and how do I undo it. But when you know where it’s coming from, and where it’s coming from is not in alignment with you, it becomes easier to not want to do that thing anymore. Agreed?

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, definitely.

Maureen Werrbach

Yeah. So what are you doing? Just as a wrap up here. What is something that you are doing or want to do? And I might be putting you on the spot. So I’m going to ask the question in a long way to give you time. Maybe there’s something you’re doing now. And if not, as an accountability, I’ll be your accountability partner. What is something that you want to do to bring you one step closer to shedding the idea of busyness in either your personal life or as a business owner? I don’t I don’t care either way.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, I mean, I think that’s a great question. So as part of this intensive, and I should give a shout out to Shawna Murray Brown.

Maureen Werrbach

I went to a training of hers loved it.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah. So we were probably who knows maybe even at that same training! I’m in the first cohort for her therapy that liberates, decolonizing therapy. And so through that, I’ve made great connections, I have a coach, you know, and also there’s a white affinity group that meets on the regular and then just the general, you know, kind of population that continues to grow as she grows. It’s just this really great community. And so that is definitely going to be something I’m gonna stay connected with, even after the eight month intensive is over. To have these conversations and to be able to talk especially to other white people, like what are we doing, you know, like, how much of this is, is white supremacy, how much of it is, you know, how much can be changed how to change it? So that is my goal. And then I really, and I say this all the time. I’m 52 years old, and it hasn’t happened yet, but I’m still going to hold out hope that that those practices of being present you know, have got to also happen whether it’s through meditation or you know, tons of quiet, which I don’t get a lot of. And just really focusing on that.

Maureen Werrbach

I recently started taking an anti anxiety medication; never have my whole life. And I’m like, three weeks into it. Now if anyone wants to go back and my social media three weeks back and see what’s kind of forgive me if you go four weeks back, so it took a week for me to get an appointment. But for the first time in my life, I feel like I can actually sit peacefully. I have ADHD, I’m anxious. I am a person historically, like, my dad has that shirt that joking shirt that says, Look squirrel! That is literally my Dad, I’m 100% my dad, it has worked for me in terms of business, because I can just run on all cylinders without burning out. But I was getting to a place after almost 10 years of owning my group practice and having these other businesses where I’m like, my body was feeling very tired, but my brain just couldn’t stop thinking of things and ideas and just all that stuff.

I gotta say, that has been one really amazing thing. I’m doing this as my way to like de-stigmatize mental health and medication for myself, of like, even just talking about it. But it’s been really helpful in having moments of peace that are happening. I didn’t realize chemically just couldn’t happen. And now my brain can actually, when I then feel guilty and think, hey, I need to do something, I’m able to actually now start working on being okay with not doing stuff. Because I think before it, there’s not even an ability for me not to be moving around doing stuff all day long. Because my brain just couldn’t. It’s pretty amazing.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, I just, I’ll get my little plug here for medication too. Just a month or six weeks ago, or so I started taking trazadone at night to sleep. And let me tell you, I was not sleeping before. I didn’t know, like the extent of it until I started getting a good night’s sleep. And that has really helped me be able to be more, just more everything right? When I’m awake. Hasn’t really helped with a busy problem, right.

Maureen Werrbach

But it’s definitely one step at a time.

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, exactly. And it’s just made me more available, I think, in my own mind to thinking about, okay, how can I do things differently?

Maureen Werrbach

Yeah, well, from one to another, I’m glad that we’re making our way to reducing busyness to being okay with it. And to also promoting that within our staff. I know you brought that up, and I’m going to wrap with that. But you had mentioned like not only busyness with yourself as a business owner, person, but also within your team, and what our expectations are on our team. And that’s something I’m really aware of lately is how my work family sees me is as like this wonder woman who never takes a seat and just does so much. And, you know, in some ways, it’s like a nice thing to, you know, feel.

But on the other end, it’s like, so if that’s what they see, like, how do they see themselves in relation to me, who they think is this overly busy, super productive, doing so much, I-don’t-even-know-how kind of person, right? And I don’t want to be seen as that person, even though maybe on the surface, I do. But deep down, I don’t because I know that that just means that they’re comparing themselves to that and maybe feeling like, either you need to be there, or that they’re like lacking in some way. So I don’t know, just to kind of wrap with that. It’s like how can we then also make sure, like, it’s almost we owe that to our team?

Rebecca Burton

Yeah, exactly. Which also helps me kind of get my mind around it and realize why it exists and why it’s so important to change it right. It’s not just a nice idea to change it. It’s really, really crucial for folks.

Maureen Werrbach

Yeah. Well, it was great talking to you. I actually had a lot of fun on this time. And it was really good to see you. I’ll see you around and Facebook world,

Rebecca Burton

For sure. Bye!

Maureen Werrbach

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